Info-Profits Talk - Have You Gone To Double Opt-In Yet

williec

Given all of the talk about the new spam laws, which only affect certain jurisdictions, I was wondering how many list owners here have gone to double opt-in. I have because it avoids a lot of headaches.

My company at http://ProfitAutomation.com also has implemented a number of new policies that preclude importing large purchased list into a database without confirming the opt-in first. It's all to prevent spam complaints.

Willie

jason_ga

Good question!

My newsletter has always been double opt-in from day one. I figured it would solve a lot of problems (reduce threat of spam complaints, ensure they entered their address correctly, ensure their email wasn't heavily filtered, ensure they are able to follow directions).

However all my ecourse lists are still only single opt in. I've been pondering changing them over, but I haven't made a final decision yet.

Cheers,
Jason

Kennon

Originally posted by williec
My company at http://ProfitAutomation.com also has implemented a number of new policies that preclude importing large purchased list into a database without confirming the opt-in first. It's all to prevent spam complaints.

Willie

Hey Willie,

What are the exact limitations for importing lists now on your
system? I have a couple of lists (ones that I've had for a while
on another autoresponder system), that I was going to bring over
into the system I now use which is a "sister" of yours.

Thanks,
Kennon :)

John Glube

Hmm...

The problem is as much the present online environment as the "new" laws.

An individual subscribes to your confirmed or double opt-in mailing list.

Suddenly, you find yourself having a problem getting your messages through to a particular Internet access provider.

Why? Because one or more individuals using this service complain and this immediately raises a red flag.

Down comes the block. So, you go to the third party auto-responder service you utilize and raise the issue with the support group.

Since no one wants to be labelled a "spammer" the blame game begins, which is unfortunate.

There needs to be a balance. Given the draconian results, it should be innocent until proven guilty. Instead, it is guilty until proven innocent.

Until this changes, as online marketers using e-mail, you are walking a tight rope and you will continue to see:

* false complaints; and,

* people looking for "safe" havens.

The result? You will have the public facade and what goes on in the back rooms.

Onshore, more and more services will move to confirmed mailing lists. This will be the public face.

(People will continue to talk about using articles, etc. to build your list.)

At the same time, the prospecting, co-generation, etc. will continue to move to more e-marketing friendly locations. In saying this, I am not advocating unsolicited mailings.

However, there is a lot of room for growth for mailing and hosting services which are willing to look fairly at the issues, deal with problems without being arbitrary, while understanding the realities of how business is done.

What can the individual do about it? Make some underlying decisions about how you want to grow and develop your business.

If you decide to focus on e-mail marketing, understand:

* The underlying key - doing "good" business. This has not changed.

(You produce a product which is a "sham"? You run a greater risk of being hung out to dry.)

* The debate about the legalities is important, but from the business person's perspective it is a risk management exercise.

* Develop a compliance plan. Review it with a competent advisor. Implement it. Keep abreast of developments. Make modifications as required.

Kind regards,

John Glube
Toronto, Canada

williec

I'm going double opt-in for my course too since I've had
instances of people subscribing others and of spammers
spamming my autoresponders.

Willie

Originally posted by williec
Given all of the talk about the new spam laws, which only affect certain jurisdictions, I was wondering how many list owners here have gone to double opt-in. I have because it avoids a lot of headaches.

My company at http://ProfitAutomation.com also has implemented a number of new policies that preclude importing large purchased list into a database without confirming the opt-in first. It's all to prevent spam complaints.

Willie

williec

Hi Ken,

It's the same on my system as it is on the one that you
currently use. Here are the changes as they affect both
system, from the notice you get just after you login:

Begin Changes:

Because of the recent CAN-SPAM bill, we're making a few changes to comply with anti-spam legislation and industry best practices.

We're committed to provide you with the best permission based marketing system online, protect you our merchant from potentially damaging UCE (Spam) complaints, and maintain the highest email delivery rates at the same time.

As such, here are the changes you need to be aware of:

1) In too many cases our merchants have been importing lists that have come from unknown sources, mainly list sellers. Many of these purchased lists contain addresses harvested from websites, and in many cases are trap addresses that have been seeded into these lists.

Using our client import utility to directly import list’s will no longer be allowed unless you are updating existing client records. Effective immediately we are requiring confirmed opt-in for all client imports. When you import a new list an email will be automatically sent to each one of your prospects asking them to confirm their subscription.

2) A daily limit for imports will be set to 35% of your client database limit.

3) Direct Subscribe Email addresses (sending an email direct to your auto responders email address) have also proved to be a vulnerability; the process does not capture the required opt-in information. We will now require any directly subscribed client to confirm their subscription.

4) Our mandatory opt-in policy for AOL has been dropped. Until now, we enforced confirmed opt-in for all clients belonging to AOL. We are no longer specifically targeting AOL or any other mail service provider for confirmed opt-in. Using Double opt-in with your web forms will still remain your choice but we highly recommend that you use it.

Also any person entered into the system in any way that has not received an opt-in confirmation, can now fill out any of your web forms to receive another confirmation message. As always, any person making a purchase from you will be considered as having opted in already.

5) In accordance with the CAN-SPAM bill, all Broadcasts and Autoresponders should now have contact information appended to them. We will be leaving it up to you to include this information in your messages.

We will be making these necessary changes to provide us with the tools we need to protect you the merchant. We urge you to log into your account, and click on Custom Forms, and then Opt-in Preferences. Here, you may set up the confirmation message that your clients will receive. You may choose from two default messages, or create a custom message to your specifications.

We thank you for your understanding and patience in this matter. We always have the best interests of our merchants at heart, and unfortunately, the industry has demanded these changes. The cleaner our lists are, the better for everyone involved.

End Changes:

Willie
Originally posted by Kennon
Hey Willie,

What are the exact limitations for importing lists now on your
system? I have a couple of lists (ones that I've had for a while
on another autoresponder system), that I was going to bring over
into the system I now use which is a "sister" of yours.

Thanks,
Kennon :) Begin Changes Begin Changes

John Glube

Willie:

So, what you are talking about is going to M.A.P.S. found at http://mail-abuse.org/manage.html to deal with:

* forged subscriptions;

(A confirmed mailing list does not completely prevent this - although it does minimize the risk.)

* spamming of auto-responders; and,

* clients purchasing and importing leads from unknown sources - it turning out the leads being harvested and seeded with anti-spam traps.

(This has to do with list sources and business practices.)

The only suggestion I would make is if you are going to M.A.P.S. to deal with these issues, you may want to consider giving the clients some leeway on the content of verification message.

Kind regards,

John Glube
Toronto, Canada

williec

Hi John,

I don't use M.A.P.S.

Our company and a number of sister companies have simply
adopted the policy of not allowing mass imports of purchased
lists or pre-existing lists without requiring double opt-in.

Mass lists that are imported have to be confirmed by the
subscribers.

This reduces spams complaints and reduces the possibility
of our companies servers being blacklisted and therefore
protect our entire customer database.

We always give our customers the benefit of the doubt when
receiving a spam complaint! We realilze that without them
we wouldn't be in business.

Willie

Originally posted by John Glube
Willie:

So, what you are talking about is going to M.A.P.S. found at http://mail-abuse.org/manage.html to deal with:

* forged subscriptions;

(A confirmed mailing list does not completely prevent this - although it does minimize the risk.)

* spamming of auto-responders; and,

* clients purchasing and importing leads from unknown sources - it turning out the leads being harvested and seeded with anti-spam traps.

(This has to do with list sources and business practices.)

The only suggestion I would make is if you are going to M.A.P.S. to deal with these issues, you may want to consider giving the clients some leeway on the content of verification message.

Kind regards,

John Glube
Toronto, Canada